[abiraghi]

Foreword: in this chapter I discuss my decision to refuse to teach the Hung style. It's a personal decision and I want to make clear my deep respect for all the serious Western people all over the world who decided to teach Chinese martial arts after years of hard training with qualified teachers. -- Alberto

In 1979 I planned to stay 45 days. I landed in Kai Tak around July 20 and as usual my lungs were compressed by the infernal Hong Kong summer weather. The pain was compensated by the happiness of seeing my friends waiting in the welcome area (sifu Chan cane just the first time, then he delegated Cheung Yee Keung to organize the meeting group). Again I reached 729 Nathan Road on Lee Yun Fook's truck, took possess of my tiny-dusty room, ready for 45 days of an hard, 6 to 10 hours per day training. The program was as tough as the former time, with the fighting forms, Woo Dip Cheung and - accepting my request - the Kwan Do. Yes, I learned the noble weapon of General Kwan - considered by many experts the ultimate weapon of Hung style - before learning other more common forms, such as the straight sword or the butterfly knives. The reasons were many: the Kwan Do is my si-hing a-Cheung's favorite weapon, master Chan loved it too, I couldn't resist from touching and moving it from time to time, finding it fascinating. Today I understand that I have been very lucky, because in those years master Chan was still strong and his mind was clear, so he remembered the whole form an I had the great honor and privilege to learn a substantial part of it directly from him.

The Kwan Do became my favorite weapon and the form I brought every time I was asked for a demonstration of Hung style in Italy. As I wrote before, I had kept frequenting a couple of gyms managed by good friends, one dedicated to semi-contact (today "kick boxing") that I had kept practicing, the the other a traditional Shotokan karate place, where I had been training and teaching for some time before my Hong Kong adventure. This second gym had a great fitness room with weights, machines, treadmills etcetera and being an old student and teacher I kept taking advantage of it.
In both gyms I was constantly asked to teach and eventually I decided to acceptor. At the time I was a student, the extra money I could earn teaching the Hung style helped taking the decision. Of course, before giving a confirmation, I followed the traditional habit of asking master Chan's permission, which he agreed immediately, adding some precious suggestions about the program (in Hong Kong there were no classes, no courses, nothing, just people dropping in and training, but Sifu knew this method wouldn't have been correct in Europe, so he asked me to organize classes and training schedules). In both places I had groups of 15-20 students, one more self-defense oriented, the other one was mostly formed by karate people interested in adding something new.
The self-defense course was based mostly on what I had learned in a series of workshops with Al Dacscos, integrated with some kung fu and some semi-contact techniques. The other class was "strictly kosher" to Hung style, starting with basic stances, low front kicks, arm spinning, punches, blocks, Mui Fah Kuen, etcetera.
Both courses were quite a success, my previous experience as a teacher helped, and after one year, just before flying back to Hong Kong, the traditional class group could display a decent form, convincing me that I could be a teacher and an efficient connection between the Chinese boxing culture and my country.

Then I flew back to Hong Kong for the fourth time. The 1980 program was harder than ever. After a few days of fixing the forms learned in the past, I approached the "real thing" in the most exciting way. One evening, after the last visit, master Chan appeared from the door, but instead of coming in he waved his hand asking me to enter his office. Then, without adding a word, he took the dragon stance (showing balance, pelvis, foot grip and position, weight distribution, etcetera) then started the abdominal breathing. That was all I did for more than a week, standing still and breathing, before moving on on the dragon part of Sap Yin Kuen. I knew that it would have been tough, but the sounds were a worse pain in the ass then I expected. So tough that Master Chan organized a meeting with Chan Kwon Kwook (my good friend & sighing Arthur), who spoke a good English and had a deep knowledge of Chinese martial arts. He translated Sifu's suggestions and explanations about how the sounds had to come out naturally from the breathing, how I had to "let them go" instead of forcing them, etcetera.
No way, I kept on sounding as a poor imitation of the real thing. I started going to parks, buildings' roofs, everywhere I could freely practice those sounds, but what I heard was something fake. My gym mates made fun of me, doing the sounds and saying "easy", but for me it was impossible.
Then, one night, Cheung Yee Keung started doing the form telling me to follow him. It was slow and intense, everybody else was sleeping and the house was silent. When his sounds came out, I followed him with the breathing, letting my inside do the rest. One time, two, three, one million, I don't remember how many times we made the Sap Yin Kuen. Then, finally, the right sounds came out.

That day I reached my touring point about learning kung fu. Ironically, the day I achieved a good success, I also realized that I had so many troubles forming learning the sounds because they are an intimate part of the Chinase language and culture, totally extraneous to me. Chinese is so different: the way the sounds are created, the calligraphy, the grammar and the syntax. A Chinese kid reads the correct sound in the ideogram and feels it coming out from his soul (or his DNA, if you like). He knows the meaning, can modulate it correctly. My sound - even the good one - is a pale imitation of an unknown sound that I hear, reproduced as a parrot. A big difference.
In the meantime, I felt that the more I practiced the sounds, the more they got real, the more the execution got better. In my meditations while learning Sap Yin Kuen and years later, learning Tit Sin Kuen, I saw the Hung style as a long path and the Tit Sin Kuen as the entrance to a different world lying at the end of the path, the forms being a journey to the ultimate essence of the art: Tit Sin Kuen, the secret jewel, the archetype.

But this image came together with a dramatic awareness: "Transmit the sounds without deeply knowing the chinese language is not possible. Therefore, since I have no time to do it, I will never be able to transmit the complete Hung style to any Western student".

When I came back home, I told the traditional group I wasn't able to teach the Hung style anymore, telling them I had understood that I could not pass them the deep essence of what I had learned in China. It was a sad moment, it was a good group, but they understood my point and did not get upset. 39 years later I still believe that was the correct choice for me.

[TOET]

that truly is sad for those that could have learned form you, yet highly honorable to be true to yourself.
_________________
( .

[Mark Kochaki]

These are the words of a person that clearly learnt Kung Fu for his own pleasure and not for sharing the art. You'd probably have been to lazy to continue teaching it to your student, betraying the trust that Master Sifu put on you. After learning a lot you haven't do anything to give back your experience to people that asked you. I think you're a very mean person abiraghi.

Ps If you wasn't able to do the right sound, It's just because you were probably not good enough.

[banditshaw]

First post with much vitriol and no intro. Sounds like we got our first troll.

[crazedjustice888]

Yeah Bandit, your absolutely right. The man made a personal decision and he didn't want to rob any of his students the teaching that he recieved and he didn't want to teach since he admitted to him self he isn't the know all be all. That takes an ENORMOUS amount of humility and self-realization. Your the man abiraghi and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
_________________
Martial Arts + Tokusatsu = Godditude

[Asmo]

Mark,

First, welcome to the forum!

Next, I'm sorry but I have to agree with the previous posts. The Internet is a really easy to way to express yourselves. Often people who are reluctant to use certain wordage in a face-to-face conversation have no borders on the Internet.

The only thing we have on the Internet is reputation build up over time. Nicks, names and the alphabet don't say anything at all. If your first post is as the one you wrote it does not hold much value, other then being a bit annoying. It is OK to have criticism, but to value your criticism we need to know what your experience and general values are first.

You might have a very good track record in real life, and be a very experienced Hung Gar member though, but that is not visible through this first post. Hope you understand what I mean, and I do hope you will find the time and motivation to post more on this forum and engage in discussions so you might become a valued member we like to discuss with!
_________________
Pain is weakness leaving the body.
Don't mind me, whatever I think I know today might be entirely different tomorrow!

[Mark Kochaki]

Feel sorry If I seem a troll, but don't care about it. I had my reasons to say what I said and I won't change my mind about it. I know a lot of people like him that is able to say things in a way to make his own actions appearing moral describing them in a certain way even if in the end, if you see the mere reality, they are not that good and moral. Anyway I had my reasons and I couldn't explain them. If people will share my point of view or if not it' not my problem, I felt the need of doing it, I don't want to start a flame like trolls usually do, so this will be my last post. Sorry If I've created some problems, just don't believe everything people told you just because it is written in a good way.

[Asmo]

Hi Mark,

Ok that was a more nuanced post The discussion whether the choice was right or not is quite an interesting one. Many factors are involved. Not all CMA have forms like TSK. Not many students reach that stage at all. People can still benefit from the art, even without TSK.

If I understood properly, abiraghi is practicing TSK himself to this day. Which makes me wonder why practice soemthing diligently you believe can not be taught to westerners? I'd love to hear your view on that abiraghi.

Just a few personal thoughts.
_________________
Pain is weakness leaving the body.
Don't mind me, whatever I think I know today might be entirely different tomorrow!

[PM]

Mark Kochaki: too strong words, i think it is not fair. being a teacher of Hung Kyun myself, i definitely understand what Alberto says - he has my respect and admiration for being straightforward and humble.

anyway, welcome on the forum!
_________________
Pavel Macek

Lam Ga Hung Kyun 林家洪拳

www.lghk.org

[abiraghi]

My dear brothe Asmo, there is not much to add to what I already wrote in the last and the other chapters of this story, but I see that the language is quite a problem. I can't understand if I succeeded in explaining exactly my feelings, let me try again.

For the records: I keep on training Tit Sin Keuen and the other bare hands forms. The logistic problems of training the weapons got me away from them for such a long time that I forgot several parts of the forms. I learned the complete style (or, at least, all the forms that master Chan and Cheung Yee Keung were teaching at the time, but I never saw in thet environment any other form). I learned everything in 729 Nathan Road, but a few last weapons, which I studied in Cheung Yee Keung's new place in the late 80's, after Sifu's tragic disease that obscured his mind. As I wrote, before my Chinese experience and during the first years of it (to 1980) I taught martial arts (karate, semi-contact and some Hung style), not for making a living (at the time I was completing my university and looking forward to my upcoming career in journalism), but for the pure pleasure of sharing with other people something I was pretty good at. I have always been hacker minded and strongly believe in the idea of sharing experiences.

After beginning the dragon part of Sap Yin Kuen and putting so much effort in trying to discover the deep secrets of the art, I felt somewhat frustrated, realizing two things: first that I needed ten times the effort needed by a Chinese student, second that I might become good (and I was god, and still my forms are pretty good), but I could never learn some parts of the art related with Chinese culture and tradition. The first obstacle was not a problem, hard training never scared me. The second obstacle is bigger than a mountain and comes from my acceptation of the concept of "sifu".

1 - a "sifu" must know the art in its deepest meanings and secrets, its history and evolution
2 - he can interpret and somewhat evolve the art
3 - he can form other masters and pass the whole art to the next generations, as in my lineage Chan Hon Chung did with Cheung Yee Keung, and Cheung si-hing is doing nowadays.

I cannot fulfill any of the above points, mainly for linguistic and cultural reasons. I could be a good practicer, a good "older brother" (and I am a good one, every Hung family brother who gets in touch is alway welcome in my house, in nearly 30 years I received hundreds of people from all over the world, mostly students of my si-hings, and shared with them what I know). But being a "sifu" is much more than this.

I hope I have been more clear this time.
_________________
alberto

[Asmo]

Abiraghi, thank you for your clarification, maybe I did not properly read your explanation in the first place
_________________
Pain is weakness leaving the body.
Don't mind me, whatever I think I know today might be entirely different tomorrow!

[ironpalm]

I read this thread this morning and thought about it throughout the day. I have mixed feelings about Abiraghi's decision not to teach, however, I totally respect his decision. I'm not aware of any rules when you study Hung Gar that you (speaking in general terms here and not Abiraghi) must pass it on. Unless you had an agreement with your sifu, that is your personal decision and right not to teach.

It is an honor to learn as Abiraghi did from Chan Hon Chung. What a great experience! I don't think Chan Hon Chung decided to teach Abiraghi because he thought that Abiraghi should pass on his knowledge. I think he did it based on what many good and true sifu/student relationships are based on... loyalty, dedication, honesty, caring, and understanding. For anyone who has experienced this type of relationship, I need not explain any further the specialness that comes with this bond.

With the passing of great knowledge comes a certain decision on what to do with it. Does the knowledge actually become a responsibility? Part of me says yes, part of me says no. I think it is quite humbling that Abiraghi decided not to pass it on for his reasons. He decided that he was not good enough... Or that he could not teach it as HE thought it should be taught. I commend you for your decision. Many others would have already put themselves at the top of the mountain and declared themselves "sifu!" Good for you. A humble sifu is a true sifu.

For Abiraghi not to teach comes sadness. Here is someone who sounds like he would be a good sifu, although I only know him through his writing. And most likely everyone's description of a good sifu is different. But the fact that Abiraghi thinks he is not good enough to pass on Chan Hon Chung's knowledge despite his training, leads me to believe that he IS good enough to teach. And I think there is a lack of good teachers out there who have the knowledge and humbleness and sense of self to be good teachers. What I'm trying to say is that there is more to being a good sifu than just passing on knowledge.

Abiraghi, humbleness and truth to self go a long way in the importance of teaching, at least in my list of values. Not that it can make up for severe lack of knowledge, but the 3 points that you list as reasons not to teach usually come after almost a lifetime of learning.

Good teachers/sifus are always learning (imho). Most of them don't know everything there is to know. Lam Cho took over Lam Sai Wing's school at 16. Did he know everything there was to know about Hung Gar back then? Did he not learn from Lum Sai Wing anymore? I believe that overcoming your second obstacle can be done, but it will be done over a lifetime, like all other sifus. The secret to overcoming your obstacles is to not think they cannot be overcome.

Just wondering if you had ever thought if Chan Hon Chong would have wanted you to stop teaching for the reasons that you gave?

Good luck in whatever path you take.

ip

[laukarfei]

this guy shared a part of his life with us and this is how it ends lol what a kind welcome.

from what i read hes nothing more then a kind and humble foreigner learning an art completly unknown to him way before the little internet age where everyone is a master of lineages and forms and everything before they even step foot in a school.

[abiraghi]

Dear Ironpalm: Chan Hon Chung was a real master. I don't think he taught with a goal ("this guy will be a teacher" or "this guy will not learn much…" etcetera). If I understood his position (I'm not sure, due to linguistic and cultural differences, in spite of the long time I spent there), he taught to everybody who appeared to be clearly and sincerely interested in learning the Hung style.
He was a wise and cultured man, but also he was somehow naive, happy as a child when somebody appreciated him and his things. I remember him smiling both when I could produce a correct "wu" sound and when I told him I appreciated his Sau Mei tea (all the students only drunk Po Lei, the official Hon Chung Gymn Students' tea).
In other words: in spite of the fact that he knew perfectly who was going to be his successor (Cheung Yee Keung, in spite of the fact that he never officialized it due to his sudden illness), he didn't have any expectations from any single persons (surely not from me, an European, not a full time student of the art, by far not his best student) because he knew that his art was not going to be lost, in one way or another.
He was very confucian minded, I think. He didn't refrain from teaching every detail of the art to people demonstrating attitude, interest, efforts, dedication. But no expectations, just a wise 100% oriental fatalism. Who has met Cheung Yee Keung knows master Chan did a good job, and even if he never declared to be proud of him, in fact he was.
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alberto

[ironpalm]